Let’s Talk About Community Immunity
Dr. Michael Elliott, Chief Transformation Officer for Centra sits down a second time with Kate to discuss the ongoing considerations for getting the vaccine and why Centra chose to require the vaccine for its caregivers going forward. This is a candid and open discussion about the WHY behind the timing of that decision and how it affects care in the future.
Note: Due to extra social distancing and masks being worn during recording for the safety of all parties, some audio may sound more muffled than normal.
Announcer:
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Centra Scripts, where we talk health and wellness and practical tips for your everyday life. And now here's your host, Kate Kolb.
Kate Kolb:
Thank you once again for joining us on Centra Scripts, it is always a privilege to sit down with members of our Centra family and have these conversations about these topics that are going on around us. And today we're going to have another sit down with, I'll just go ahead and say it. One of my favorites, Michael Elliott is here today, and we've talked to him before. You've been here before. We talked a little bit about the vaccine a few months ago, and we're coming back for round two today. We wanted to sit down and talk to you again. So for those that don't know, Michael is the chief transformation officer here at Centra, and we are just very honored to have him here today. And so, Michael, thanks for making time in your very busy schedule right now to sit down with us.
Kate Kolb:
So let's just go ahead and launch right into this. We are in a very interesting time right now in the history of our health and the world as we know it, and even just here in our community. And we're having a conversation today about this vaccine for COVID-19, and I wanted to bring you in, one because you just, you spoke so well about it last time. And it was on the front end of that wave of people getting vaccinated. But we didn't see that many people adopt the vaccine that we thought we would. Talk a little bit about what numbers look like from a national perspective, and what numbers look like locally for people who have been vaccinated in this fight against COVID.
Michael Elliott:
Sure. From a vaccination standpoint, we are lagging behind as a community. Behind the state and the nation. When we look at everyone who's eligible to get the vaccine, locally, in the 13 communities that we serve, we are anywhere between 36% and 42% vaccinated. The state is at 56% vaccinated for that same group, and the United States is about 51% vaccinated for that group. So we are lagging behind.
Kate Kolb:
Interesting.
Michael Elliott:
And unfortunately when lagging behind in those vaccination rates, those are the communities that are most susceptible to outbreaks, frankly, like we're seeing right now.
Kate Kolb:
Okay. Well, and so here's a question. I think there were some people that when the vaccine hit the market, and... I felt like there was a clamoring for a little while of, when is it going to be my turn? When am I the next on the list? Because we saw that rollout in stages. Are you surprised by the lack of adoption of getting the vaccine? Has that surprised you all as leaders in the healthcare community?
Michael Elliott:
You know, I wouldn't say surprised because we've become so polarized-
Kate Kolb:
Sure.
Michael Elliott:
As a nation. And so literally I would have individuals contacting me saying, "I want the vaccine. I want it now. How dare you not get it out faster?" And of course there was a shortage of vaccines. We just didn't have enough in the beginning.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
At the same time we had people who said, "I absolutely do not want this vaccine."
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
"Do not push it on me, and as a matter of fact, you all are pushing it too hard right now as well." I would have those same conversations within the same hour. And so I'm not surprised by the way that we're polarized. I do wish that everyone would do their research, understand the benefits versus the risk. And we've tried to do education to that point as well. And we've always said, people need to make their own decision. The unfortunate piece here is the decisions that we make as individuals on this vaccine does have impact to those around us.
Kate Kolb:
Right. Right. And that's a really, really excellent point. I think that we have been very honest from the get-go about the fact that we do want to allow people to have the time to do their research and that sort of thing, and make their decision in due time. But yeah, there are repercussions for people not maybe taking the vaccine as quickly or that sort of thing. Let's talk about this concept of what we call herd immunity. And we like to call it community immunity here at Centra, but explain what that is, because I think that's a phrase that gets thrown around a lot in the media, and in different healthcare stories. And it's probably just something that we hear, but I'm not sure if everybody understands what that means. So can you speak to what herd immunity and community immunity is?
Michael Elliott:
Right. And I love those two terms. Depending on where you're coming from, those terms hit you a little bit differently, but at the end of the day, what they mean is there's a level of protection that we can have as a community once there are enough people vaccinated, so that the virus does not have the opportunity to jump from person to person.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
And so from a community immunity standpoint, the numbers are really based on how virulent the virus is. And so what the experts have said is that we need to really get up to about 70%.
Kate Kolb:
Okay.
Michael Elliott:
So if you're in a room with 10 people, we need about seven of them to be immunized so that the virus has less chance of jumping from person to person.
Kate Kolb:
And so just to go off your earlier example, if we were in that same room with 10 people, right now, currently in our communities, we're only looking at about three to four of those people being vaccinated, correct?
Michael Elliott:
That's correct.
Kate Kolb:
Okay. Yeah. Which is striking when you consider that there are that many extra people that need to be to that level of vaccination in order to fight this thing. Do you think that... We use words like fight this battle against COVID, and a lot of battle terminology when we've been talking about this last 18 to 20 months of life that we've experienced. Do you think that that is, the vehemence of those statements still rings true to what's going on with what we're dealing with today?
Michael Elliott:
Absolutely.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
So in speaking with our teams in the emergency department, just last evening, we had more patients in the waiting room than we've ever had before. And most of them with respiratory symptoms.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
We are in a resurgence right now of COVID that is absolutely, number one, predictable, and it's absolutely disappointing right now.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
So we have friends and family in our community who are in a place that could have been prevented.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
And so if you talk to our doctors, our nurses, our other staff in our emergency department and on our COVID units, they'd look like, and they have been, through a battle.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. Yeah. And we are seeing that not only in our healthcare system, but across the country and across the world. There is an additional pandemic happening with the health pandemic that's happening. And I think it's affecting the morale, the health from a sense of energy level, and just mental health and things that everybody is facing. I was talking last night with someone and just was saying, "I just feel heavy." I just feel heavy. And I feel like there's so much information coming out, and there's so much stuff that everyone is dealing with from day to day. And I keep hearing this phrase, "When is it going to end?" And the only thing I keep coming back to is, well, we have something that can help us end this, but there's just not much movement in that.
Kate Kolb:
So it is. It's heavy. It's heavy and it's a battle. So what would you say, then, to people who just, we hear this all the time. "I don't want to take the vaccine because there's no way that it could have been researched enough. There's no way that it could have been developed that fast." And these are very vehement arguments against the fact that this vaccine could come out in the timeline that it did. What would you say to those individuals that are still very much against it, or on the fence because of the research time?
Michael Elliott:
Sure. A couple of things I would say. Number one, the mRNA technology has been around for over a decade. It's been being studied. It's been utilized in labs, and finally had an application where it made sense to roll it out, and it's been highly successful. So it's not new. It's been around for a while. And I want to address a couple of topics around what I think are definitely valid considerations, because this is still a personal decision.
Kate Kolb:
Sure.
Michael Elliott:
However, I want to make sure that people are getting all perspectives as they're dealing with things. So one of the things that I hear, and people are absolutely right, we don't have long-term data on these vaccines. That's exactly right. They're only a year and a half old.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
From a study perspective, we're not going to have long-term data because that's just not possible until time goes on. What we are able to see though, is that people who have gotten the vaccine, aren't having any long sequelae from... sequelae just being outcomes.
Kate Kolb:
Okay.
Michael Elliott:
And there also is much data to talk about long haulers, who actually get COVID.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
So the risk-benefit analysis that I would love everyone to go through is to look at what does the data say so far around long-term impacts of the vaccine, versus long-term impacts of actually getting COVID.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
And it is by far more of an issue to have long impacts from actually getting COVID. And the other thing that's out there is natural immunity.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
So a lot of individuals say, "Hey, I had COVID, I have natural immunity. I shouldn't need to get the vaccine." So let's talk about that.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah, let's. Please.
Michael Elliott:
I want to be open about that as well. The recommendation right now is that even if you have had COVID, that you get the vaccine. Here's why: everyone is different. And so what the scientists are seeing is that if you've had COVID, there's not a consistent level of antibody that is produced in everyone who has had COVID.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
Some people have more of a mild case and therefore their immune system does not ramp up enough to help them as much as a vaccine would. The vaccines have been shown to give a consistent level of antibody production, and it's produced at a very, very high level as well. So we're seeing studies, and we need to see more, where there is some natural immunity, and it does help. And we're also seeing studies, obviously, that show how effective the vaccine are. The recommendation right now, until there is more information is that even if you have had COVID, get the vaccine, because we don't know the levels of antibodies that your body is producing. At the end of the day, what we want to do is put as many things in the path to stop COVID from affecting you, you being sick, and then infecting others, so that this thing does not continue to spread like it is. It's spreading like wildfire in our communities right now.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. Well, and you said the word resurgence a few minutes ago, and talk about that for a minute. Because I think that's another one of those buzzwords that we're hearing a lot right now. But from a very definitive standpoint, we are absolutely seeing a resurgence in our health system. And we are hearing about it in other surrounding health systems around us. So talk about what the word resurgence looks like for us on this second wave of COVID.
Michael Elliott:
It's almost mind boggling that right now, at this point, we have more patients in our hospital, in the ICU, than we did this time last year.
Kate Kolb:
Wow, yeah.
Michael Elliott:
We have a vaccine now. And there's several reasons for that, that I'll go into in just a moment, but look at different places around the country. Many places in Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, they are at records of even higher than the highest peaks that we saw in January, which is when we were really, as a country, in the throes of this pandemic. So what we're seeing right now really is unfathomable at this point in time. And the reasons for that are multiple. But the biggest one is that the Delta variant is much more virulent than the Alpha variant that started all of this off.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
And so it's affecting more people more easily. It's affecting younger and healthier people. We're not seeing the same population in our hospitals. We're seeing young, healthy without any other health issues, people in our hospital, in our ICU, and unfortunately also passing away.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. Which is just, it's so tragic to have to watch this second wave of things happen. And these are our friends, these are our neighbors. These are our family members that we're watching have to go through this again. I do want to ask, and I know that demographically speaking, we cannot give super specifics, obviously, for HIPAA reasons, but are we still seeing a trend of vaccinated versus unvaccinated in our hospital coming in, as far as who has been hospitalized and that sort of thing? Talk about those numbers and what those look like.
Michael Elliott:
Sure. Over 90% of the patients that we're seeing get admitted to the hospital now are unvaccinated. It's an even greater disparity once we talk about who ends up in the ICU.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
It's almost exclusively individuals who are unvaccinated.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
There are some who have significant comorbidities that are vaccinated that are ending up in the ICU too, but that's a very, very small number. And comorbidities are just ailments that you have. So diabetes, hypertension, obesity, issues that really make you susceptible to lots of different diseases.
Kate Kolb:
Okay. Yeah. And that's great. I'm glad you defined that word because I think sometimes we forget in our health speak that not everybody speaks that language every day, too. But yeah, we are far and away seeing the numbers trend toward the data that we have been collecting, that people who have been vaccinated are just not getting as sick if they get it, and/or not getting sick and not having to come see us at all. So again, I'm sure we sound like a broken record, and I'm sure that people are tired of having these conversations, I'm tired of having these conversations, frankly. I feel like there are just conversations and topics that we are going over and over and over again. And it's frustrating, I think, as a society, to have to do this, but at the same time, we have been given tools, and we have been given things that we have access to. So why would we not use them?
Kate Kolb:
So that, and again, just to reiterate, that's why we're here today. I just want to take a minute here. This may be, we're pivoting in a little bit different direction, but you're here and we're going to have this conversation. We're going to talk a little bit about the elephant in the room now. And the fact that we announced as a healthcare system... what, a week ago now? Was that only a week, I feel like we've lived a whole year of life in the past week... just recently that we will be, as a healthcare system, requiring the vaccine of all of our caregivers going forward.
Kate Kolb:
And for those that don't know, when we say caregivers, we mean everything that you would put under as staff or employees, that you would hear that terminology elsewhere in other organizations. And we say caregivers here. I'm a caregiver, even though I'm not on the floor. You're a caregiver, even though you are in leadership, and you round and things like that. And our nurses, our physicians, our providers, they are caregivers as well. Let's have a very frank conversation about the why behind Centra's decision to require a vaccine right now in this season.
Michael Elliott:
Absolutely. When we look at what our responsibility is as an organization, we're first here to do no harm.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
We're here to heal. And we started going down, we started looking at all the topics, long-term data around the vaccine, natural immunity. We considered the Delta variant that we knew was coming our way. We considered our lagging vaccination rates in this community. We considered the fact that schools are reopening-
Kate Kolb:
Yes. Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
At all levels, in person. We also looked at the fact that approval from the FDA was eminent. They signaled that several weeks ago, and as of yesterday, they approved the vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine, anyway. So we took all of those things into account. And at the end of the day, we said, "No patient should ever come under our care and wonder if there's enough barriers in place to prevent them from getting COVID from one of our caregivers." And I know there are all sorts of perspectives. There's pros and cons to that. At end of the day, as a health organization, we felt that we needed to take that step. We needed to lead the way for the community and make this requirement one that we put in place. We've done this in the past. And most health systems actually require the flu vaccine.
Kate Kolb:
Right, yeah.
Michael Elliott:
So I was looking at a survey from 2018. It showed that over 70% of hospitals across the nation actually require their caregivers to get the flu vaccine, just like we do. And with that, 80% of healthcare professionals get the flu vaccine, about 90% of those in hospitals. So this isn't something new.
Kate Kolb:
Right, right.
Michael Elliott:
A lot of people wanted to wait for FDA approval, and now that that's happened, I saw an article last week that said as of last week, about 30% of hospitals across the US had already put a requirement in place. I believe now that we have full FDA approval for the Pfizer vaccine, that number is going to quickly jump up very close to what's happened with the flu vaccine, which is that over 70% of hospitals and health systems.
Kate Kolb:
Right now, let me ask you this, because I feel like there are some arguments out there that are saying, well sure, other larger cities, other states that maybe have a little bit larger populous than maybe Virginia has, they have talked about requiring the vaccine, or other COVID measures and that kind of thing. What would you say to the people here in Virginia that just feel like this is just absurd. Why would we do this? We're not a major metropolitan area. We have more rural outlying areas. Why is it important for us in the Lynchburg and surrounding communities, in these 13 communities that you referenced earlier, that we serve as Centra, why is it so important for our state and our communities that we make this type of requirement?
Michael Elliott:
COVID does not care if you're in a city, on a farm, or on the moon.
Kate Kolb:
True. Yes.
Michael Elliott:
COVID is a virus. Viruses want to replicate. If we don't protect ourselves against that, they will. And the other fact here is, frankly, we've got the Delta variant that's here because we didn't have enough people immunized early on. We didn't have the vaccines.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
If the vaccine is going to be as effective as it can be, we need more people to take it.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
Now, the virus is looking and learning. So, we all learn. If I wanted to be the best chess player of all time, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to play a lot of people. I'm going to go around and see different styles of chess play.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
That's what the virus is doing.
Kate Kolb:
That's an excellent description.
Michael Elliott:
Going from person to person, checking out how your immune system attacks this, checking out how somebody else's attacks this, and it's getting smarter and smarter. And if we're not vaccinated, we allow it to get more intelligent.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
And so there are already some other variants that are of interest to our scientists, and we're hoping that they are not as deadly the Delta variant. But we need people to be immunized to be able to stop the virus from being able to learn.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. And let's talk for a minute about the history of eradicating viruses here. This was not in our notes, but it just occurred to me while you were talking, you're talking about viruses that learn their way as they go. And they develop into these other things. It sounds very much like one of those science fiction movies that you would watch, but this is real science. This is how science works. This is how viral effects occur in our communities, and people to people contact, and that sort of thing. The idea of eradicating a disease or a virus with vaccination, that's not a new concept.
Michael Elliott:
Not at all.
Kate Kolb:
So what has that looked like for us in the past?
Michael Elliott:
Absolutely. So we've had numerous viruses over time that we, as a world, have been able to essentially eradicate from most places. And it's a very straightforward concept.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
You mentioned it before, community immunity. At the end of the day, if the virus has nowhere to go, if it does not have a host that it can jump to and then replicate, then it dies off. And so that's what we want to do here with the COVID virus as well.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. And I love that concept of community immunity. I think that it gives us something to think of other than just maybe the scientific phrases that we hear a lot. And as a community, this is really a group effort. It is a team effort. It is a family effort. We cannot, as individuals, fight this virus in a way that any one person is going to be the Rambo that takes everything out. It requires every single person doing their part to come together. And so that concept of that community piece is maybe, I think, the element that we're missing in some of this polarization that you talked about earlier, just in the arguments that are going back and forth. Now, I want to be real careful right here to make sure that we do acknowledge that there are plenty of people that might not be able to receive the vaccine for various reasons. Can you talk just a little bit about maybe a few of the reasons why people would not be able to receive it, and what we can do as people who can, to help their immunity?
Michael Elliott:
Absolutely. So if you've had a reaction to one of the vaccine doses before, or any of the ingredients in the vaccine, then absolutely not. You should not take the vaccine. Now, the different vaccines actually have different ingredients though.
Kate Kolb:
Okay.
Michael Elliott:
And so just because you've had a reaction to one doesn't mean you're going to have a reaction to the other. But there are going to be individuals who it is not medically recommended that they actually get the COVID vaccine. Our best way to help protect them are all of the things that we have put into place. Wearing our masks, social distancing, washing our hands, and getting the vaccine ourselves.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
That makes it less likely that they're going to come into contact with someone who is sick.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. So again, it's about all of us. This is not any one person against another. This is not an us versus them kind of a conversation. This is everybody coming together for the sake of the whole, and healing. Healing the community. So et me pivot to a little bit of a different topic here, because again, going back to that elephant in the room that we just talked about with the requirement that we are putting in place at Centra. Obviously people will have a choice as to whether, as caregivers here, that they want to receive the vaccine, if they have not, or whether they want to move on.
Kate Kolb:
Let's talk about if somebody chooses to move on from here and does not want to receive the vaccine. Obviously, we don't have a crystal ball sitting here in the room and we can't tell exactly what everybody's going to do, but are there trends that we are seeing in the healthcare system as a whole? Not just us, but those surrounding and those across the country? Do you think that individuals that would choose not to move forward in their requirement, are they facing maybe some hardship in trying to find employment elsewhere?
Michael Elliott:
Yeah. And thank you for asking that question, because at the core of all of our questions, all of our thoughts around this, they're people.
Kate Kolb:
Right.
Michael Elliott:
And I have to tell you from an endearment standpoint, the people who come in, and toil, and work to make sure we're taking care of the community, those are our caregivers. And regardless as to whether they decide to get the vaccine or not, their work has been heroic. And it absolutely tears me up that we get to a place where we can't have something that works for 100% of our team.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
I wish that we could hold on to every caregiver, but the trends are that health systems across the nation that have put a requirement into place have lost some small portions of their overall percentage of employees. And I expect that we will do the same. It's a really, really hard thing to talk about because these people have worked their tails off just like everyone else. They have beliefs that, at this point, don't line up with where we are going as an organization.
Kate Kolb:
Sure.
Michael Elliott:
So we would absolutely wish them well. And if they change their minds, our arms will be open to them. I would give one piece of thought to those individuals though, and this is why I did so much research looking at other health systems that require the flu vaccine.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
It is our point of view that most, if not all health systems that require the flu vaccine are going to end up requiring the COVID vaccine as well. Even if they are not requiring it today, whether it's three months, six months, nine months, 12 months down the road. Most of them, if not all, are going to end up requiring the COVID vaccine as well.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
So as people potentially look for other places in employment, I would suggest that they ask, "Are you ever going to mandate the COVID vaccine?" And get that in writing as well. Because my belief is that they are going to end up, they being hospitals, health systems, and medical practices as well, they will end up requiring the COVID vaccine. It's not a matter of if, it's mostly a matter of when.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. And I want to make sure that people understand, too, in this conversation that we're having, I have the ability to sit here and watch your facial expressions and your emotion that is clearly evident in your body language across this table. And I do want to make sure that when people are listening to this podcast, or anything else that we're putting out as a healthcare system, that they understand that this was not a quickly made decision. This was not something that was done without a lot of labor, intensive conversations, and research. And you all toiled for a long time on this.
Michael Elliott:
Absolutely.
Kate Kolb:
And so one, I just want to commend you all as a leadership team for the organization. I know that that can not be easy. And I know that there is a lot of just hard conversations that you've had to have. There's a lot of consideration for maybe what's better or best for the situation at hand, but that you've done it with your heart in the right place. You've done it with a passion for the people that we serve, not only inside our walls, but outside of these walls. And so I just want to say thank you for leading with compassion and grace in a really, really difficult situation.
Michael Elliott:
Thank you. It's a privilege to be able to help us walk through these issues. And I know you can see it, but we are torn up about this.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
Once again, the thought of losing some of our teammates, who have been here side-by-side or in front taking care of others in the community, it's just really, really tough. We also saw the impacts of COVID on our caregivers. Our caregivers who've had COVID.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
Two months ago, during the month of June, we essentially had almost no caregivers out with COVID or COVID symptoms. And now we're close to 45, upwards of 50, right now. So there's a real impact to these individuals, their departments, and our ability to give care in the communities.
Kate Kolb:
Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's an important piece of this conversation to have. That this is not a decision that's being leveled at any one group of people or any believers on certain sides of the lines, or the polarity that we've talked about. This decision and the surrounding sentiment toward the vaccine in general, from our stance as a healthcare system, is we want to protect people. We are here to heal, and we want to make sure that we are making that impact in the community around us, but also for our caregivers. And so I appreciate you saying that, because we do value them as individuals, and we value their health and safety as well, and would never want to invite them into an environment where, now that we have some of these things in place where we can be more precautionary and more protected, we want to make it just as safe for them as we do for any individual walking in off the street that has to come see us.
Kate Kolb:
Because at the end of the day, we've said this before, in other conversations that we've had on this outlet and others, we really, at the end of the day, don't want you to have to come see us. We want to be here for you if you have to come see us, but ultimately we want to help keep you healthy.
Michael Elliott:
That's right.
Kate Kolb:
And help heal you from anything that's going on. And so again, let's just talk a little bit more about this here to heal as we wrap up, and really just tell us where your heart is, Michael, on that concept.
Michael Elliott:
So a couple of things. First, everyone in their lives, they have decisions to make. And many of those decisions, you know and understand somebody is not going to like it.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
It doesn't matter what the decision is, someone's not going to like it. So you have to stick to your values and let your values drive your action making. And so a couple of our values here at Centra are respect and kindness. We believe to be respectful and kind to people, you have to be clear. Don't drag things out. Don't give out potential falsehoods, be clear. And when we've looked at all of the data, it's clear to us that the COVID vaccine is going to be required in most places, from a healthcare perspective, in very short order. And so rather than putting other stepwise items in place, we want to be clear with our team so that people can make their own decisions. And so that's why we've done that. And the other value is integrity.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
We, frankly, don't like having to be in a situation where people who have toiled, giving their heart and their all, have to make a decision that may have them end up not being our colleagues. We don't like having to do that, but we do have to do that.
Kate Kolb:
Sure.
Michael Elliott:
It's what you do when you're blessed to be in a leadership position. But from an integrity standpoint, we wanted to do all the research. And we talked to people locally, regionally, at the state level, and nationally as well, as we were making that decision. And we've ended where we have, and we're going to follow through on it as well.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
So that makes my heart heavy, but that's life.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
The other thing that makes my heart heavy is I'm going to round our hospital right now.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
I continue to hear patients and their families saying, "I wish." I wish I had gotten the vaccine. I wish I had not waited. I wish that I had thought through this a little bit differently, before we've ended up here in the hospital with my loved one fighting for their life.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah.
Michael Elliott:
And I just implore anyone who is open to the idea, and I know there are many people who are not, but if you are open to the idea of getting vaccinated, don't just listen to me. Speak to someone that you know personally, speak to your family physician, speak to your local pharmacist. Somebody that you know knows your medical history, knows enough about the vaccine and COVID to give you really, really sage advice. And then do what your heart and your mind tell you to do.
Kate Kolb:
Yeah. All excellent advice. And I so appreciate you taking the time again this morning, just to sit down with me and have this conversation. I know it's not an easy conversation to have. I know there's a lot of elements about what we've talked about today that frankly hurt. And it's a lot to take on, and hopefully this is a conversation that will open the doors to people having other conversations amongst themselves and with their family members, like you just said, if you are open to it. Maybe that can be something that you can consider. So, Michael, thank you again so much for being here. I appreciate you as a leader and as a friend during this time, and we just appreciate you as a guest on this podcast too.
Michael Elliott:
Thank you for the opportunity, and Kate, it is always a pleasure.
Kate Kolb:
You're very welcome.
Michael Elliott:
Keep up the good work.
Kate Kolb:
Thank you very much. Well, that's going to wrap it up for today's episode. Lots of heavy stuff to consider here, but we want to make sure that you have the information and that's why we're here, to keep you informed and to keep you healthy. And so if you have any other questions about this, you can check out our other resources on centratoday.com, or centrahealth.com, and we look forward to continuing to serve you in our community.